From a discussion thread at Yahoo! Groups – Libertarian on how us anti-Iraq-war folks have supposedly seen our objections “being dismantled”:
Lofgren said: “- for the oil? then why are we holding elections so early?
What this bit of illogic fails to acknowledge is that our decades long relationship with Hussein soured only AFTER he invaded the monarchy of Kuwait and began to annex their oilfields. While Hussein’s beef with Kuwait was a border dispute, Bush The First didn’t care. When Hussein made a grab for Kuwaiti oilfields, all of a sudden we had to help the Kuwaitis. And protect the House of Saud, monarchists as well (and home to most of the September 11 hijackers). Which led to the Gulf War. Sanctions. Dead Iraqis. More dead Iraqis. Gulf War II. 1200+ American bodybags.
Lofgren said: “Germany didn’t vote until 5 years after occupation.”"
Who cares? This is completely irrelevant to whether or not we entered into an unnecessary, costly war.
Lofgren said: “100k civilian deaths? Iraqis report on 3856.”
I don’t care how many died or didn’t die. I care about WHY they died. The simple fact is that Iraq didn’t want a fight, didn’t ask for a fight, and wasn’t planning on gassing little Buffy and Bambi as they slept in their safe suburban homes. Lies to the contrary are simply excuses for murdering the citizens of another nation for the crime of geography.
Lofgren said (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpfsc/message/3189): “all the libertarians I know are pretty ticked off about 9-11 and think the middle east does need coercion and preemption, and movement toward more traditionally liberal gov’ts.”
The Middle East as a collective needs “coercion” and “preemption”? How exactly is group punishment in tune with libertarianism? Stealing my money via taxation to practice a collectivist form of “coercion” and “preemption” nation-building is now a libertarian tenet? Since when?
Lofgren said: “- bush lied? 4 administrations, 3 presidents, 15 other nations *and* almost the entire house and congress agreed he had to go.”
As a libertarian, I don’t give a shit who agreed with him. If a war is unnecessary, its unnecessary. Pointing out who agreed with him doesn’t change that. Popular does not equal accurate or necessary. Initiating force against a nation uninterested in a fight doesn’t suddenly become righteous just because an angry mob agrees with said initiation.
Lofgren said: “no WMD? multiple caches have been found.”
Where I come from, we call this lying. There have been no so-called “WMD” caches found since the beginning of the war. There have, however, been several false positives (frenzily reported by pro-war types) on objects tested for sarin, cyclo-sarin and other toxins. Lies were repeatedly told about mobile trailers for launching such weapons by pro-war bloggers, pundits, chickenhawks and “brave” members of the 101st Keyboard Commandos. That myth has been repeatedly debunked. And then debunked again. Further, only a small number of leftovers from the Iran-Iraq war, and a small supply of obsolete 1980’s missiles and grenades that could be used to deliver such toxins were ever found during the current conflict. Of course, those trumpeting such discoveries as their smoking gun fail to mention our government’s involvement with Hussein while he was using such chemical weapons on Iran and his own subjects alike.
However, if Mr. Lofgren is truly interested in WMD, I suggest he google “Khamisiyah” for more information on how the U.S. Army exposed a large portion of the deployment force (including me) to chemical weapons during the first Gulf War and then covered it up.
Sgt James Landrith
USMC (1988 – 1995), USMCR (1995 – 2001), Gulf War veteran and nemesis of big government chickenhawk nationbuilders everywhere