IRC Politics.org Transcript

*** Now talking in #politics

*** Topic is ‘Tonight’s Guest.. “The Multiracial Activist” 7pm Pacific Moderated’

*** Joins: EndofRace (EndofRace@client-141-156-123-144.bellatlantic.net)

hey it’s EndofRace …

James, I would like to offer a greeting to you .. from me .. and from the rest of the channel members. Welcome to our channel. We are delighted to have you as our guest.

Thank you CometBaby. I’m glad to be here.

FreeTrade is away and will be with us in a minute

Good evening EndOfRace :))

Good Evening TwoBar

Hi And welcome.. 🙂

Lets get the show on the road as they say 😉

*** FreeTrade sets mode: +m

*** CometBaby changes topic to ‘Live Debate In Progress: Guest from The Multiracial Activist’

Announcing our guest tonight: The Multiracial Activist. Their editor, James Landrith, is here to discuss “NO Racial Identity” .. the abolition of all racial categories .. completely!. His cause supports biracial/multiracial people including interracial couples/families, and transracially adopted individuals.

Mr. Landrith was a speaker at the News Conference on Racial Classifications on Census Forms held in D.C. and covered by CSPAN where he called for an elimination of all racial categories on the census. James attempted to enroll in Bob Jones University and was rejected due to his interracial marriage. He has also been interviewed on Morning Edition for National Public Radio on this subject.

I would like to remind the audience tonight that we will not tolerate rudeness, ad hom attacks on our guest or other inappropriate behavior. This forum will be moderated. The guest will have an opening statement, an opportunity to introduce himself and his topic and then the audience will have an opportunity to ask questions or make comments, one at a time. The guest will have the opportunity to respond, and the next person will be given voice.

CometBaby and FreeTrade (myself), will moderate this forum. At the end of the question and answer period, at the guests discretion, we will return the channel to an open forum. If you have a question for our guest .. message FreeTrade to get on the message queue

And now here is our guest! James, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your organization or philosophy and then we will give people an opportunity to ask questions, and then you will have an opportunity to respond to them! Its all yours James, Thanks!.

I would like to say one thing James while you compose your opening statement, I’m part of a multi-racial family and have been looking forward to this night.  So the floor is yours when you are ready.

*** FreeTrade sets mode: +v EndofRace

you have been given voice now EndOfRace .. please begin

Thank you FreeTrade. I am editor of The Multiracial Activist.

I am here to discuss abolition of all racial categories on the census and other government forms that collect racial information.  It is my belief that these racial classifications serve more to divide people.

EndofRace, I as a moderator usually try to limit my comments and remain neutral. But I must say I’m in complete agreement with you and on my census form under race, I checked of other. And wrote in “Human Being” for my 4 family members.

Government division of people by “race” has long ago lost any usefulness it may have once had. As a libertarian, I believe fully in the right to privacy and object on that ground as well.  Writing in Human Being or American is a good way to express your disapproval with these categories.

End of Race, When you are ready, we will start fielding questions. Just let me know..

I am ready for questions.

OK, Cometbaby has the first question tonight, other people interested in asking the guest a question, please msg me

How did you choose to answer the racial questions on the census? And would they be counted, no matter how you answered them, even in the case of refusing to answer?

I answered the first question, which asks how many people live at the residence. I refused to answer anything else. My guess is they asked the neighbors after we refused to answer through the door.

EndOfRace, what are your thoughts on Affirmative Action ?

Affirmative action. I oppose all quotas and set-asides. Period.

Do you think the different cultures that people experience racially are responsible for dividing people’ as much as the labels? Or more/less so?

That depends on what you mean by culture. This white man personally has more in common with a black man from the same area (Central Illinois) than a white man from say Louisiana.

archim may want to clarify

Did I misunderstand your question, archim?

I understood the question and the response.

Just a follow-up. I agree about the Illinois example, but don’t you think that at least in America, the majority of race-issues pop up because of very different cultural experiences? White Southerners and White Northerners had tremendous problems relating once, but it wasn’t racial and didn’t seem due to the labels.

I agree. Regional differences are often much greater than “racial” differences.

With interracial marriages and children being of mixed races as so many adults already are, won’t race be difficult to identify and become non-existent? How is race even an issue, and why on earth is it still on the census?

Cricke, you make a good point that many on the left don’t want to hear. Race is unidentifiable by gene.

so why even have race? Who are the main proponents of race identification?

Race is on the census as a result of several laws and regulations passed by Congress and past and present Bureaucrats. The main proponents of race identification are typically civil rights groups and large companies who look to the government to provide the free data.

EndofRace, I’m Dutch,Irish,English, my wife is Black and Cherokee and cuban. My kids are Everything under the sun. And I really resent the government condescending to race as a means of saying in essence that you can’t compete with the rest of society without our help, My wife who is in 100% agreement with me. Your thoughts on that ?   Also, How can someone like myself help your cause other than I’m Camera shy, Do you have a PAC or anything ?

I resent it too. It is ridiculous to say that you have to have government help. That is like saying you are inferior.

Exactly.

There has been discussion at INTERRACIAL VOICE which my colleague, Charles Byrd runs about establishing one. I hope we can do it.

(side note) Endofrace, My email address is rwx@ircpolitics.org let me know if you need a petition drive or testimonials or whatever.

FreeTrade, I will do that.

Isn’t there some reason to believe that asking for a person’s race on the census, is in itself racist? Why isn’t there more outrage?

There isn’t more outrage over it, because people are pretty programmed to do what they are told. If a form is in front of you…

I believe that asking for the data is indeed racist. It is a way of saying “you are different”

Liberals believe that they are helping minorities, when to anyone with a brain it is obvious that they foment dissent and differences. Any idea where the roots of this idiocy began ?

I believe some of it is downright “mommy syndrome”. The whole, I must protect you and nurture you because you can’t do for yourself.

EndofRace: although not racially prompted, the Supreme Court made a rather landmark decision regarding homosexuals in the Boy Scouts. I personally agree with it, since it is a private institution. Do you feel that a private, non-gov’t funded org. of ANY kind should be forced to be tolerant of all races, as well as sexual preference, gender, etc?

I believe that they have the right to free association. I also believe that they also have the right to be beaten up in print about it too, without trying say they are being picked on. Their free association rights are guaranteed, but so are the rights of those who disagree with their policies.

Free association is their right. While I disagree with their policy, I support their right to have it.

EndOfRace, Although I know you are working to get rid of identification by race (something I wholeheartedly agree with) I am curious as to the racial demographics of your supporters. Has your message been well received among African Americans and Hispanics, for instance? And last, a comment… I truly appreciate what you are doing. It is clear to me, and many others, that the very source of much racial strife is in “feel good” yet divisive ideas, such as the ones you are working against.

I get supporters of all shades. I couldn’t really give you an idea of the percentages though. I don’t know them.

racism is not dead .. but it’s being kept alive by race hustlers like Jesse Jackson and al sharpton whose careers would be over if racial hostility were allowed to die a natural death

Bread Amen.. (If I can toss that in)

I don’t know if racism would die like that, but it would go away quicker, but Al doesn’t do any good when he gets involved with something. All he does is inflame situations. Jesse too.

By getting those two to sit down, things would improve where they were previously agitating.

I have a comment. Too bad they cannot be like Martin Luther King .. a man who felt that all men should be held to the same standards rather than using race as a mitigating factor…

I agree. I have yet to read anything by MLK advocating racial classification, etc.

We are all different..some of us have more similarities than others…but, why is it the business of the government? Do we as a nation want to have different laws etc for different people?

The government has made it it’s business through unconstitutional laws and regulations.

My question is whether you think that other factors should be eliminated from governmental procedures in terms of identification (if they’re there). For example, where race specifically is not an issue, religion may well be (Catholic-Protestant, etc.). Should such identification also be avoided by governments (say in a country like Northern Ireland)? That is, … eliminate potentially highly divisive identification factors.

The government has no business collecting/demanding any of that information from citizens.

These types of data collection are corporate welfare and violate the 4th amendment.

They are also handy when you want put people in internment camps, like they did with the Japanese during World War II.

EndofRace, It sounds to me like your organization is trying to live up to the principles of the united States constitution (Some founders floundered), And the Dream or Martin Luther King Jr, And people like me who know my kids are as good as anyone else and don’t need any special hand outs.. I personally really appreciate what your organization is doing.

EndofRace how do you feel about racial profiling? Do you think police overuse it?

Yes I do. End the drug war now, which is to blame for much racial profiling.

I would like to hear some dissenting opinions if there are any, Are there any ? We want open communication here..

The melting pot is a success, though limited in scope. Why?

The melting pot is a limited success due to too much social engineering. If we leave people be, they will work it out and things will get better.

EndofRace we recently had a situation at a local Lord & Taylor where a black anti theft security caught a black family shoplifting….it was caught on tape..in a struggle the black father was killed….al Sharpton was in town yesterday crying racism…can you see the irony in such a claim? where does it end?

Al will do anything to get on TV. It will end when people sue him into bankruptcy. Maybe.

sorry, my last question should have stated it was a black security guard..

If you mix n match all the races, what will enable their separate cultures to survive ? Isn’t this of major importance ?

Cultures change all the time. It is up to the people who belong to these cultures to keep alive the traditions and practices they want to keep alive.

Just to go back to the whole ‘regional differences in people’ line from before, do you have any thoughts on dealing with hostilities/problems that spring up between people due to such things?

Archim, could you give me an example of the type of conflicts you are talking about.

Say, between people who grow up in the poorest ghettos, and people who grow up in the best parts of Manhattan. Or rural southern areas versus urban northern areas.

I say they need to learn to live with each other. Anyone who initiates force to violate someone else’s rights should be handled through private arbitration or the court system

#politics If you have a question or comment for our guest, you need to message FreeTrade to be added to the queue

You know on the question of culture, My family is so mixed up, that we basically have no cultural identity. I can’t speak for others but for me its liberating. And for my children, We can be true to ourselves rather than a religious or racial cultural indoctrination, I realize a lot of people don’t feel this way. I can only relate my own experience.

EndofRace, what are your feelings on the issue of making the learning of English a requirement in our public schools. (Being a libertarian, I assume you want privatization of the school system, but until/if that happens.) I have seen numerous people and organizations cry foul, with claims that is forces the children to lose their heritage, etc, etc.

Heritage should be practiced in the home and should not be the duty of schools.

I disagree with any requirement telling people they have to learn a certain language.

Well, Lets open up the channel now to open discussion… ON RACIAL IDENTITY

*** CometBaby sets mode: -m

The Moderated Guest Appearance is over. The channel is now open for general debate

*** CometBaby changes topic to ‘Channel has returned to open debate’

thank you

My pleasure, please stay on topic. Hopefully the guest will stay for a while.

With regard to an earlier question regarding language in the schools .. I feel that the only language that should be mandatory is English .. because every time you tell poor people they don’t need to learn English, you are cheating them

CometBaby, I am not saying that people don’t need to learn English, I just oppose forcing it on them.

I am a strong advocate of having the Americanized English as a national language. This nation requires a single language to operate efficiently, the lack of that creates chaos

we have a lot of Asians in Vancouver, they speak Cantonese and other dialects…a lot haven’t learned English and done very well in their communities

End – this is America – why should WE be forced into adding on more teachers and classes, billions and billions of excessive paper – in other languages??

EndofRace .. and then there are all these classes being taught in Spanish. Teaching children in Spanish has almost nothing to do with what Hispanic parents want for their children .. it has everything to do with govt. policy

Well… an ideal society would be 100% Asian…. 🙂 Actually racial identity has been abused in the past by the state.

EndofRace: Did you already cover Japanese internment?

Thanks, EndOfRace 🙂

You are welcome Twobar.

EndofRace, are you upset with Bob Jones University for denying you access to their Institution…sorry I arrived late if you have already dealt with that issue

I am not at all upset with BJU. I just wanted to expose their silly policies to people again.

End – how can one expose silly policies and yet have privacy?

but you do accept and respect their right of free association?

Without overwhelming him of course 😉

I respect their right to free association. I don’t advocate government force.

EoR agreed there

End: Should G W Bush have spoken at BJU, endorsing their polices as such

I think GW Bush’s decision was politically stupid, but his right.

GW was not wise at the very least

EndofRace, I agree with that.. I wonder if in retrospect if he would of chosen otherwise.

EndofRace .. I heard news stories about someone who had been denied entrance to BJU .. was that you they were talking about?

<MiDave> EoR would that single issue change your vote?

I am voting for Harry Browne, so GW Bush’s trip to BJU is a non issue for me.

Same here. Browne 2000.

Harry Browne that radical individualist/anarchist? 😉

Waste your vote…vote for Browne

EndofRace, that’s ok, Because Ecotype is voting for nader and that will keep Gore out of the Whitehouse 😉 (The lesser of evils) 🙂

no vote is ever wasted .. the only wasted vote is when you don’t vote

eco…Browne is a wasted vote…just like Perot was

Votes for Browne, also help with ballot access for local Libertarian Parties. Obviously he isn’t going to win. That isn’t the point.

Well its a bit off topic, but pragmatically I agree with Hiker.. I know the next president will be Gore or Bush, and I’m going with the lesser evil as it were 🙂

Hiker, I’d rather ppl vote for a fringe candidate than not at all

Every vote for Browne and Nader is a vote away from Gore….not Bush .. splitting the liberal party is a good thing

EoR, what is the overall goal in abolishing all racial categories? I’m sorry if I seem completely dense for missing that. 🙂

I do not see the need to ask for ‘race’ — gender on the other hand…..

I may have missed it but I’m curious how multi ethnic census info will be used

Eco, that was one of his prime issues..

Eco, His position is that the government has no right to try to classify people along racial lines.

sorry, I’m still at the office 🙁

Multiple race responses will be used differently depending on the agency using it. All kinds of collapsing and reassignment ideas are being mulled over.

Ft, I don’t know if the gov’t is *trying*..but more info can only help…although I’m sure you have an opposite opinion 🙂

I saw someone mention that the census takers would ask their neighbors about them..is that really true? do they actually ask your neighbors about you if you don’t answer all questions?

mj40 yes, I’ve heard stories that if you don’t answer the questions, they will go to neighbors

that scares me..gives me shivers that the gov’t would send out ppl to ask neighbors about you. What also scares me is..what did the neighbors say

EndofRace, I consider myself a libertarian…however…my belief is that for the party to continue growing and become a viable option it needs to continue promoting at the local level, get local officials elected, then move into Congress, and so on and so forth. I don’t see Presidential runs doing much good — and not nearly as much good as local efforts seem to produce.

synergi, I agree. We are not going to elect an L pres until we control some state legislatures and have significant representation in Congress.

EndofRace, one thing that particularly irked me on the census form… Was that it told how you would basically be given free shit or rewarded by fully answering the census.  In fact the more I think about it, I would like to see a lawsuit against that Census form.

Its seems to me that the census was fishing for illegal aliens and racial classifications for gerrymandering districts..  In fact, I would go so far as to suggest it is another plot by the democrats like Motor Voter to get people who aren’t interested in voting registered..

FreeTrade .. don’t forget the DEAD … they have swung a vote or two 🙂

The more I think about it the more it pisses me off.

Comet, Motor voter was such an obvious fraud.

Free .. and then there was that business in California .. where they were registering illegals to vote

The Democrats know they get the most ignorant voters if they can get them to vote. People who have no initiative on their own to vote are urged to register to get a license.

And that’s a fact.

Hermandad Mexicana legal center supplied over 600 voter registration cards to illegal aliens plus a large number of illegals registered to vote with them … a Dornan lost that election by about 900 votes

The least educated and the highest educated (Government paid professors and researchers) vote democratic.

EndofRace, I find the prospect of a Gore White House appalling. And, as much as I would like to register a protest vote with Browne, I don’t think it will mean anything to the future of the movement or the party. Grass roots up WILL. Hence that is where my money, and support goes.

synergi you either vote on principle…or you waste your vote on pragmatism….

MiDave, hmmmm, I find that to be foolish.

synergi…well me voting for Harry Browne is not foolish..

Every vote for Browne and Nader is a vote away from Gore….not Bush

I will not yield liberty for comfort

MiDave, but that is exactly what you are doing. You accept the comfort of having the feeling of voting on “principle” … while causing an increase in loss of rights. I see that as lazy, particularly if you do not work to change the system significantly on a local level. If you do, then you are allowed. =)

synergi if you think you can slow the chains of slavery by voting for Bush go for it..but those chains are still creeping closer .. you either accept liberty…or something in between….I owe my ancestors better than “security”

MiDave, I agree. I find value in having them creep slower WHILE working to change the system where it will actually mean something in the future. People who vote on principle, yet do not work to change things at the local level, are inexcusable. Their principle is nothing but laziness.

Votes for Browne, also help with ballot access for local Libertarian Parties. Obviously he isn’t going to win. That isn’t the point.

synergi – are you on the LP2000 list at egroups?

EndofRace, no. But I will be now.

It’s a good list, full of local Libertarian activists exchanging ideas.

Here’s an interesting quote… The genome researchers mapped the genetic codes of five people, self-identified as Caucasian, African-American, Asian and Hispanic. When it was done, they couldn’t tell one from the other. As one scientist put it, “The concept of race has no scientific basis.”

EndofRace .. do you have a problem with people attempting to force a classification on your children .. such as “white” or “black” .. rather than acknowledging that they are the best of all worlds? 🙂

ComeBaby – I do object to that, as Neil Peart once wrote, “I will choose free will”

EndofRace .. I am also a fan of Neil Peart .. “I will choose a path that’s clear .. I will choose free will” .. and another one .. “You can twist perceptions .. reality won’t budge”.

CometBaby – keep those lyrics coming.

time for our guest to leave

*** CometBaby sets mode: +m

our guest is going to have to call it a night

James, thank you so much for coming to #politics. I hope you will come back and visit us again someday. The transcripts of this debate should be up at the website sometime tomorrow .. www.ircpolitics.org

*** CometBaby sets mode: -m

Thanks EndofRace for coming!

Thanks for having me. Feel free to email me at editor@multiracial.com. Good Night.

thanks EoR

EndofRace, nite 🙂

Ciao!

nite End