From Viv, a poster on a discussion group I subscribe to with regard to school prayer. Viv is responding to some nonsense poem that some theocrat is attempting pass off as that of a ‘persecuted Christian’ 12 year old:
derspatz wrote in message
Subject: Now I sit me down in school
:
:> WRITTEN BY A 12 YEAR-OLD-GIRL in BostonVIV
Oh, really?:”12 year-old-girl”
:Now I sit me down in school
:
:Now I sit me down in school
:Where praying is against the rule.VIV
Student-led prayer is protected under free speech rule. Only teacher-led prayer is against the rule.:”12 year-old-girl”
:For this great nation under God
:Finds mention of Him very odd.
:If Scripture now the class recites
:It violates the Bill of Rights.VIV
Not unless the teacher leads it or makes it compulsory in some way.:”12 year-old-girl”
:Anytime my head I bow
:Becomes a federal matter now.
:The law is specific; the law is precise.
:Praying out loud is no longer nice.VIV
Nope. Covered under free speech so long as the students lead it.:”12 year-old-girl”
:Praying aloud in a public hall
:Upsets those who believe in nothing at all.
:In silence alone we can meditate
:And if God should get the credit-great!
:They are bringing their guns;
:I don’t dare bring my Bible,
:To do so, might make me liable.VIV
Oh, puhlease. Nobody is preventing students or teachers from carrying Bibles. Or the Torah. Or the Koran. Or the Bhagavad Gita. Or the Wiccan Rede. Which is probably exactly the fundys’ problem – the fact that they can’t stop other faiths/holy books from coming onto campus.:”12 year-old-girl”
:So, now Oh Lord, this plea I make;
:Should I be shot in school,
:My soul please take.
:
:Pass it on . . .VIV
While not wishing to belittle the tragedies of school shooting massacres in the USA and other countries, I can’t help but notice that the most recent occurred in deeply Christian Middle-America communities. There were plenty of students wearing crosses on necklaces in the news reports and plenty of reports of small groups hiding in rooms reading FROM THEIR BIBLES THAT THEY WERE CARRYING for comfort while the shooters were rampaging around them.I know that schools in multiracial and multicultural areas in the USA have violence problems and deaths, but they seem to be one-on-ones or gangs-on-gangs, not this shooters-with-arsenal-against-unsuspecting-random-schoolmates thing that happened in Arkansas and Littleton.
I don’t think MORE prayer and Bibles in school would have prevented the latest school massacres. They happened in Bible-toting communities that were also gun-toting communities.
Viv:
Thank you for responding to this Religious Right crap. They know full and well that student led prayer is legal, but want to confuse and manipulate the public with lies and disinformation about school prayer. Compulsory prayer in school? Sounds like they want to lay the groundwork for a religious dictatorship complete with inquisitions and witch burnings and mind control. These people scare me. Anyone who wants to know what some of what the fundamentalist storm troopers have in store for America should visit:
http://www.multiracial.com/issues/issues-bobjonesuniversity.html
This entry also posted in Yahoo! Groups – errancyn.
1999-06-14 07:34:00
UPDATE: For those still peddling the “prayer is illegal in schools” bullshit, see here. Prayer is not now, nor has it ever been, illegal in school. Students may pray to their heart’s content, they just can’t be FORCED to do so by faculty, administration or other students. For those still capable of reasoned thought, there is a big difference between banning prayer and banning coerced prayer. Think about it before posting folks.
Ya know…While free speeh and all that is protected in the Constitution, it is the \”separation clause\” that people are argueing over. Many veiw that separation of church and state mean that you can\’t even have student led prayer in school since that would \”violate\” the other students rights somehow. Those Christian clubs and get-togethers are hard PRIVILEGES to win. That is what the child is refering to. School officials in many areas take the stance that once you cross onto the school\’s property that you forfit some of your constitutional rights. Why is it so hard to believe that a 12yr. old wouldn\’t be able to see an injustice and write about it? Are you afraid that she might be right?
3/25/2004 9:18:00
i1scooter said: Ya know?While free speeh and all that is protected in the Constitution, it is the ?separation clause? that people are argueing over.
Actually, the argument wasn?t so much about the separation clause, but the fairness of teachers and educrats ordering ALL children to participate in mandatory school-wide prayer sessions. You may be okay with such coercion. I?m not.
i1scooter said: Many veiw that separation of church and state mean that you can?t even have student led prayer in school since that would ?violate? the other students rights somehow.
The courts don?t view it that way, and in the end they are the ultimate word on this issue.
i1scooter said: Those Christian clubs and get-togethers are hard PRIVILEGES to win.
I don?t have a problem with them. However, this poem was being distributed with a call for mandatory, school-wide teacher led prayer by multiple religious right oriented groups.
i1scooter said:That is what the child is refering to. School officials in many areas take the stance that once you cross onto the school?s property that you forfit some of your constitutional rights.
Which is different the what she said. She said that ?praying is against the rule.? Praying isn?t illegal. Forcing others to pray or suppressing their free speech rights while you pray is, however.
i1scooter said: Why is it so hard to believe that a 12yr. old wouldn?t be able to see an injustice and write about it?
Because this 12 year old was never identified, and this magical poem turned up just in time to coordinate its public release by the folks calling for a return to teacher led prayer sessions.
i1scooter said: Are you afraid that she might be right?
Right about what? SCOTUS ruled that students CAN pray, but that students CAN?T be FORCED to pray. There is no gray area there. The poem claims that praying is illegal and it has been used by proponents of mandatory prayer to prey on the sympathies of those who don?t know any better. The Supreme Court says otherwise. Any school contradicting this is in violation of the law.
3/25/2004 9:53:00
I heard that poem for the very first time 04/05/04 via BBN Radio. It impressed me so, that just a few minutes ago I simply type in the words that I remembered: ?Now I sit me down in school?. ? an ended up hear at your site.
I am not appalled at viv?s posting because that is the mindset of this contemporary society. Those who indulge in that kind of thinking do not know God, have never known God, and have no desire to know God.
Whether or not a 12 year old expressed that sentiment or not, the words are true. The content illustrates what is occurring in our nation.
Do not attempt to distort that which is not pleasing to you, by attempting to interpret it by sarcasm. It is not becoming, and it does not elevate your position.
Just state your opinion and let it stand alone.
If there are those who are atheist, that too, is a priviledge. No one says you have to believe in God? (Oh I forgot, an atheist does not believe there IS a God.)So, why then are you concerned about those who believe in God? that does not make any sense to me. If there is no God, then you do not have anything to be concerned, or worried about. So let us get on with our folly, and you can get on with your life.
HOWEVER; Should it come to pass that God does exist?.What will your comment be then?????
4/6/2004 1:33:00 AM
Viv;
If you are still interested; here is another version I found, that is closer to the one I heard. I believe the one that we referred to before was not complete. This has nothing to do with separation of church and state. It is as I said, an observation of the ?way things are?.
The New School Prayer
Category:(Religious) Created:(9/10/2000 1:18:00 PM) Viewed (124 times)
I got this in an E-Mail a few months back and I thought it was totally awesome. It says it was written by a teen in Bagdad, Arizona. Here it is:
Now I sit me down in school,
Where praying is against the rule,
For this great nation under God,
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow,
Becomes a Federal matter now.
Our hair can be purple, orange, or green,
That?s no offense;it?s a freedom scene.
The law is specific,the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud is a serious vice.
For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence we must meditate, God?s name is prohibited by the state.
We?re aloud to cuss and dress like freaks,
And peirce our noses, tongues, and cheeks.
They?ve outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote from the Bible makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the unwed daddy our Senior King.
It is inapproiate to teach right from wrong,
We?re taught that such judgements do not belong.
We can get our condoms and Birth Control,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
It?s scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school?s a mess.
So Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot: My soul please take.
4/6/2004 2:12:00 AM
Rev. Logan said: “Should it come to pass that God does exist?.What will your comment be then??????”
That nowhere in the Bible does it give the good ?Rev.? the right to force other people’s children to pray in accordance with his beliefs.
Rev. Logan is intentionally and dishonestly dodging the issue. The problem is the use of GOVERNMENT to FORCE other people’s children to worship as theocrats like Logan see fit.
My children are not your property.
9/9/2004 15:49:00