Well, I share the same sadness that others in the blogosphere have regarding the slaughter of women and children near An Nasiriyah. The whole incident was disgusting and unncessary and I'll not blame the victims for getting shot while driving in their own country. Many other bloggers have covered the finer points:
I'm just going to touch upon one of many issues that got under my skin.
The comments from Cpl Ryan Dupre in a UPI story are disgusting and indicative of his need to be pulled to the rear and given a psychiatric evaluation for purposes of determining his state of mind.
According to UPI Cpl. Ryan Dupre reportedly said: "I am starting to hate this country. Wait until I get hold of a friggin' Iraqi. No, I won't get hold of one. I'll just kill him."
According to The Times (Sunday edition), Cpl Dupre's comments were: "The Iraqis are sick people and we are the chemotherapy," said Corporal Ryan Dupre. "I am starting to hate this country. Wait till I get hold of a friggin' Iraqi. No, I won't get hold of one. I'll just kill him." For those unfamiliar with the Marine Corps, "Cpl" is an abbreviation for Corporal, which in the USMC is an E-4. In the Corps, Cpl Dupre is a non-commissioned officer, and as such he is expected to act as a leader to those more junior Corporals, Lance Corporals, PFC's and Privates in his charge. His remarks, if accurate, are not in keeping with the responsibility of his rank. I say this as a former Marine who reached the rank of Sergeant. Cpl Dupre can thank his lucky stars that I am no longer wearing a uniform, let alone in his chain of command. Again, if this report is accurate, Dupre's comments are a disgrace and dishonor to the uniform he wears. He has no business wearing it any longer. Some may claim he was just letting off steam. Understand this, the responsiblity of his rank does not accomodate such outbursts. His battalion adjutant needs to address this issue immediately. Cpl Dupre's comments are not indicative of the mind of a "liberator" of Iraq. Liberators don't openly boast that they're going to kill someone. We cannot afford to wait until Dupre acts upon his remarks and commits murder. War is war, but murder is murder and that's what Dupre's remarks suggest he is contemplating.
Update – Other bloggers/writers on Dupre:
- Nick Denton
- Elaine of Kalilily
- Jeremy Hart
- Jim Henley
- bestkungfu weblog
- Dissident Voice
- Hesiod
- Frog n' Blog
- Lee Kottner
- Ikram
- Keith Teare
- way down here
- John Wilkins
- a broken lull
- wise & uncanny – be sure to check out the comments on this blog
I’m a libertarian who’s for the war.
Often times when I’m thinking about this whole argument, I thank god that I don’t have such dishonorable people as International A.N.S.W.E.R. on my side. Or the guy who called for “a million Mogadishus”.
And although war *IS* hell and ought to be minimized, I have been proud of the lengths that the U.S. had gone to avoid civilian casualties, needless damage, and even to rebuild things that they had broken.
Corporal Dupre’s words make me so ashamed that I have difficulty expressing it in words. The murder(?) of the women and children in the van triggers a similar response within me.
I want to be able to support a war that I think is for a good cause (i.e., to defend ourselves from a dictator with nuclear ambitions and a penchant for risk-taking). I can’t support a campaign that is needlessly cruel and wreckless in the taking of innocent life.
Posted on April 2, 2003 04:16 PM
Interestingly enough there were three postings made on this thread in the last 2 hours. One postings was by Erin H., who claims to be Dupre’s girlfriend and another was made by Melinda B. and had the exact same IP address – 67.240.46.30 and were written as if to be by people who don’t know each other, yet were written in the same style. Interesting! I know which postings to delete via IP address in the future. The other posting, made an hour prior to the other ones, used the same writing style and specific phrasings as the other two postings, indicating the same individual had written it. Then Joan M., who had posted in this thread several days ago, magically posted again within a few minutes of the deletion of the other postings, criticizing me for the deletions. Joan must monitor this thread 24/7!
Clearly this is the work of a an active spamming campaign and not legitimate. Cute. Keep trying Freepers.
Posted by: James Landrith on April 25, 2003 10:48 PM
Okay So I can understand you being a lil shook up by recieving the postings from Ryans freinds, However we were not spamming you, I can only hope that you didnt block our emails, because you need to remove our IP address from your website. I also know that you should be smart enough to know the difference between spam and two people that care about someone wanting their point of view stated. Erin and I are roomates, she is Ryan girlfriend and I was wondering if you know what slander is, Because you better believe me, Ryans superiors are going to be reading your webpage by tomorrow morning. I hope that you and your libertarian writers quoted him correctly and even if they did have you ever heard of inflection, or figurative speech. If someone were shooting at you you would want them dead to. I have been a reader of yours for a while now, I usually agree with what you have to say, However, Now I know you are not up to a real debate. I strongly suggest you remove our IP address and let this one drop. We are all mature adults here.
Melinda
Fri 4/25/2003 9:50 PM
First off, Marines don’t refer to anyone as their “superiors”. We have platoon commanders, commanding officers, SNCO’s and NCO’s, but not superiors.
Second Cpl Dupre is deployed and his officers and SNCOs don’t really give a shit about the internet. Are you REALLY fucking trying to threaten me, a Marine and Gulf War vet with the “superiors” of Ryan’s that are deployed? Really? ReallY?
Third, I’ve been shot at and exposed to chemical weapons to boot. Do not, as a civilian, presume to lecture me on something you’ve never experienced and will likely never experience from the comfort of your warm home. Enlist before lecturing.
Okay?
Further, it was not me or “my libertarian writers” (who are they?) as you so cluelessly wrote who quoted Cpl Dupre, it was a writer for The Times (Sunday Edition), which is by the way, one of the world’s most conservative newspapers and not prone to hyperbole and exaggeration. The Times was also in favor of this war, so let’s drop the childish pretense that there’s been a manufacture of quotes. Even the uber-conservative Washington Times ran a story including the quote. Had it been falsified or taken out of context, the pro-war crowd at The Washington Times would have handled the situtation without delay. Anyone with a real knowledge of political journalism is aware of that dynamic.
Having served at Headquarters Marine Corps and knowing the Public Affairs Office workings through direct experience with their staff, I know that they’d have beaten the Hell out of The Times (Sunday Edition), The Washington Times and UPI in the media for this if it weren’t true. The Corps, which has the best PR machine of all the services has left this one alone, rather than lie to cover it up or make excuses.
It may be hard for you to accept, but someone can act one way in one environment and can be entirely different in another environment. I’ve seen people change and lose their humanity and professionalism firsthand. As you know, I’ve actually served the Corps as an NCO and I’ll be blunt – Cpl’s and Sgt’s are non-commissioned officers, and as such MUST comport themselves in a manner that brings honor and respect to the uniform and sets a proper example for those under their command. Remarks that defile an entire population and advocate killing a people that the U.S. government has publicly announced it would liberate doesn’t meet that criterion. Even pro-war advocates have denounced these remarks. Those in a non-commissioned officer leadership capacity simply aren’t allowed to express such sentiments and expect all to be forgotten. Some things are never okay. You haven’t served in such a capacity. You couldn’t possibly comprehend it. It’s just that simple. So instead of claiming I’m not open to debate, do a little soul-searching and accept the fact that some of us who’ve worn the uniform and served our time know a little something that those who haven’t served can never comprehend. There is a difference
between knowing someone in a calm and casual environment and seeing them prepared to kill. Let’s stop confusing the two. No one is attacking the Cpl Dupre you see when he’s on leave. It’s the Cpl Dupre who made the comments quoted by a pro-war reporter writing for a pro-war paper that is being held accountable in the court of public opinion.
Fri 4/25/2003 7:39 PM
Eventually, I was able to confirm that all of these chickenhawks who kept DENYING that Ryan had been quoted saying some fucked up shit he shouldn’t have said were family or friends. So, their FB links have been added to their whining comments. They wanted to be on the record. So be it.
Ryan said what he said. He was quoted saying it by several pro-war publications. That’s a verifiable fact, despite Kelly’s lies to the contrary. I said what I said, as is my right. The cute threat of me getting in trouble with the Marine Corps (I’m a veteran dum-dum) was weird and crazy childish. Something Kelly didn’t understand was that the military answers to civilian authority, not the other way around. Only an authoritarian who doesn’t believe in the Constitution would claim otherwise.
In short, that means Ryan’s “superiors” don’t get to say shit to me. I have this lovely thing called a DD214 which means I can say fuck off.
Die mad about it.
Because postings have been blocked on that page, I am using this as my chance to comment on the postings about Marine Ryan Dupre on April 2, 2003. How convienient that when the attacks come back at your words, you are quick to block them. I apologize that I did not have knowledge of this sooner.
“His remarks, if accurate, are not in keeping with the responsibility of his rank. I say this as a former Marine who reached the rank of Sergeant. Cpl Dupre can thank his lucky stars that I am no longer wearing a uniform, let alone in his chain of command. Again, if this report is accurate, Dupre’s comments are a disgrace and dishonor to the uniform he wears. He has no business wearing it any longer. Some may claim he was just letting off steam. Understand this, the responsiblity of his rank does not accommodate such outbursts.” – James Landrith
Do tell…why would he have needed to thank lucky stars if you were the Sergeant you speak of? Did you not just tell us that there is a responsibility with rank and that rank does not accommodate such outbursts? What kind of leader would that have been? Please continue to explain to me, because I have never been in such a situation myself, how boys (and I stress that they are boys) are supposed to act in times of war. You obviously have had experience. Have you ever been in combat situations? (Other than training of course.)
Is there not also a responsibility for YOUR statements? Do you know all the facts behind the comments made? I know the media has NEVER misinterpreted statements before. I agree that it is freedom of speech. When you touch so many lives with one click of a button you have a responsibility for anything you post.
I agree that killing for the sake of killing is wrong. It makes me sick to think of the lives that were lost and will continue to be. Can you ever justify death, or can you just not justify women and children? It has been difficult to turn on the TV or log onto the internet and see the war first hand. Those are friends and loved ones there, not just strangers. They have been asked to do what most of us cannot comprehend. This is real and it is life.
My point…I am not about blaming or pointing fingers, but I will not sit by and let you so arrogantly point fingers here. Whether right or wrong to make the statement (if it was even said), who are you to criticize. Former Marine or not, you were not there. You just showed me by your comments why I thank my lucky stars you are no longer in uniform sir. That is also someone’s child and loved one. How easy it must be for you and I to sit back and have a war of words. Our military is not so fortunate. Their war affects life. They were sent to protect OUR life and those of OUR loved ones.
Because I don’t know what the context of his statement was and if it was even made, I will not judge nor criticize those words. Instead, I am grateful that he and every last one of our servicemen is willing to fight for our freedom, for our protection and for our way of life. Without it, you and I would not be at liberty to have such interactions.
My gratitude goes out to our troops and the loved ones that are left behind to wait and wonder about the outcomes of our military engagements. So there is no question, I am not ashamed to say that I am the sister of Erin H. (not a spamming campaign and I assure you that it is completely legitimate). More importantly, I am a friend of Cpl Ryan Dupre.
Date: 2003-05-01 14:19:27 (Pacific Time)
Remote Host: 66.190.198.218
Dear Kelly:
What a heartfelt posting you made, and remarkably similar to one of the postings I had deleted. You really do seem sincere, so I am inclined to believe you are who you say you are, especially given the length of the message, but I have a reasonable question. Can I assume you are also “Hershey Ma” who posted on that thread with the fake email address dm@hotmail.com, since the IP addresses are identical, except the last number? If so, you aren’t making your case any better through fraudulent postings.
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:10:48 +0100 (EDT)
Kelly Hershberger
Sat 5/3/2003 7:14 PM
Dear James,
Once again you prove my point.
Your assumption is wrong. Definition of assumption: “Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof”. (www.dictionary.com) Hershy Ma would be my mother. As far as the IP address, of course they are going to be similar. We live in the same town with the same cable internet provider. As for the writing similarities, I can’t help you there. You see, I was never able to read the other postings. I was out of town last weekend and didn’t find out about your site until after you so kindly removed them. Might I add that it was my sister’s, her roommates, my mother’s and his mother’s postings that were blocked that I am aware of. Our families do keep in touch.
Everything I said did come from the heart. It was not just about him though. Here you proved my other point. The media (which I will include you in since you have the capabilities and are a medium for reaching so many) can present only the facts they want to. By deleting and blocking those postings, you edited and presented what you felt. You assumed it was spam and formed an opinion. You broadcast that opinion just like you did about Ryan.
Forgive me but I am just a simple-minded educator. I believe we as adults have a responsibility here. I see everyday how much the internet and these forums affect young minds. What example have you set here. You formed an opinion about a man based on words that you don’t even know the context of. You slammed him for those words and let everyone that could read know. Then, when it came back on you…you deleted it. All I am asking is that you think about the responsibility you have before you act. You are not in a position to assume just like Ryan is not in a position to blow off steam. What little I read about your site, are you not trying to open the minds of others? Stop closing the door for other opinions. I do appreciate that you were concerned about spamming. I can see where it would be a problem given the content of your site.
-Kelly S
You can find me on MSN Messanger under khershberger@hotmail.com or AOL Instant Messanger under hershykspk.
Awww, you really do think you are incredibly witty. Instead, you make excuses for a white man threatening to MURDER brown people in a foreign land. How very, very white of you. Careful, that bloodlust is beginning to show Kelly. If you want to kill people in wars, go fucking enlist. Seriously, you are whining like a petulant child. Ryan said what he said. Now, the rest of the world gets to talk shit about him, whether your precious lil family approves or not. You don’t have to like it. No one in the real world cares. Go back to the woods. You are just another chickenhawk coward fake-ass Christian warmonger who makes excuses based on race. You’ve been exposed. Later.
Sat 5/3/2003 7:30 PM